Andrew Hill: An Unknown Short Audio Interview
I knew pianist and composer Andrew Hill (1931-2007) a little. I met him at a few events, and we spoke a few times on the phone. He was a truly original musician, and although he left behind a fair number of printed interviews, there are not many on audio. So it is particularly interesting to hear him discuss his early years in this short interview with Claes Dahlgren. The radio script is dated August 15, 1966, and as with other interviews in this series, that means that it was recorded shortly before that date, and probably broadcast soon afterward in Sweden.
Hill talks about teaching himself piano, and studying music theory in high school. Although he was from Chicago, in those days he claimed to be from Haiti. That’s presumably why at 0:58 he refers to “having this Creole thing embedded in me.” I just checked the 1976 edition of Leonard Feather’s Encyclopedia of Jazz, and at that late date Hill’s birthplace is still incorrectly listed as Haiti. But later on, Hill acknowledged that he was from Chicago, and most sources now list that, including his own website, which is still up.
He continues, “When we’d go in the town—we used to live on the outskirts of town—we would hear all the impressionistic” school of composers, Debussy and Ravel. He’s suggesting that his French Creole roots made him particularly receptive to the influence of French classical music. But remember, he did not actually have Creole background, and he wasn’t from Haiti. However, above all, Hill stresses the importance of getting beyond one’s influences, and developing an individual voice—and he certainly succeeded at that.
Here is further info from Encyclopedia.com:
Hill freely admitted that he had made up the story of his Haitian origins. “I used to blame it on other people, but it was me, and [jazz writer] A. B. Spellman helped me plot the crime,” he said to Phil Johnson of the London newspaper the Independent. “I was born in Chicago and had no interest in Haiti or patois, but that enabled me to get gigs on the college circuit, the Dave Brubeck thing, you know? People looked at jazz music as exotic and pretending you came from Haiti helped.”
At the end of the audio, Dahlgren introduces Hill’s piece, “Ode to Von,” written, I believe, for Chicago saxophonist Von Freeman. It was recorded in December 1963 and appeared on Hill’s album Smoke Stack, which was not released until July 1966. So that was his most recent album at the time (the music is not included here).
We are able to hear this recording thanks to the generosity of The Claes Dahlgren Collection at The Centre for Swedish Folk Music and Jazz Research (Svenskt visarkiv). I want to personally thank Wictor Johansson, head of the audiovisual collections, and Jörgen Adolfsson, research archivist and musician, for their kind assistance.
Please Note that permission was given for the audio to appear in this newsletter Only —no other copying or publishing of this recording is allowed without prior approval. Let us all please honor this, in which case more interviews will be coming your way. (I promise you that I have some additional amazing ones lined up!) In short, do not post the audio of this interview anywhere else—but please do share the link to this page with everyone you know! (If you see the word “Share” below, just click on that.)
All the best,
Lewis
I have to wonder whether the point Andrew Hill was making about A Creole Haitian connection was one about the founding of an African-diasporic American community in Chicago, linked to the founding of Chicago by Jean-Baptiste Pointe DuSable in the 1700s. DuSable was a creole (Black by American dichotomous geal/cultural definitions) who was born in Haiti (slave mother, French father) and who was a trader who supposedly founded Chicago. See this link or others: https://www.dusableheritage.com/history
Multiple things in Chicago are named for DuSable including a famous (predominantly Black) high school on Chicago's South Side that was well known for it's music program and to which many jazz great went (Gene Ammons, Von Freeman, Richard Davis, Nat King Cole, Dinah Washington, Johnny Griffin, John Gilmore).
I think the link between Chicago and it's Haitian-Creole roots may well be stressed in the oral traditions passed down among Chicago African American families. It stakes a claim of African diasporic origins of Chicago. It also evokes the creole origins of jazz in New Orleans and links to the New Orleans- Chicago- Mississippi migration patterns through which people and culture moved. I suspect these are the points Hill may have been making.
Thanks Lew! That's the stuff.
I talked with Andrew a few times after concerts towards the end of his life, warm but not very talkative. When I interviewed Marty Erhlich for my thesis, I proposed that Andrew often let the music take shape vs. really directing the musicians, and Marty agreed with that assessment though that was most likely concerning his later sextet.
I appreciate Andrew admitting that things don't always sound good, or work out, in his music and notice (particularly in Blue Note alternate takes and unreleased cuts) that there are moments captured where he isn't at his best.
I will consistently point to the solo "Verona Rag" as a moment he so fully captures, that it validates his musicianship utterly. He just wasn't so much of a session player, usually his own recordings are well realized and he did throw together some fine tunes on his sideman hits even if he rarely sounds as perfect as Herbie, McCoy or Sonny Clark do on other's recordings.