Ellington: Unknown Radio Interviews and Music 1940-41, 1 of 2, and a Halloween TV Show
Today we’ll hear an unknown, never before available, Ellington interview from June 12, 1940, that ends with him playing his recent composition “Never No Lament” at the piano. The band had recorded it on May 4, 1940, and it was released on May 24. (Yes, 78s came out that quickly.) It was better known later, with lyrics, as “Don’t Get Around Much Anymore.” Next time we’ll hear another interview and a previously unknown broadcast performance of “…Lament” by the full band.
Many radio interviews were scripted until “talk radio,” where listeners could phone the station. And, although “calling in" began in the late 1940s, it did not become common until many years later. Before that, radio hosts were trained not to let unscripted guests speak for very long, for fear of them sounding unprofessional, with pauses, stumbles, “umm,” clearing their throat, and the like. That is why in old interviews the host often does most of the talking, or both people read from scripts. And on variety programs both the host and the guest often read a scripted comedy routine, as you’ve probably noticed. Professional actors, entertainers, or politicians, who were experienced at speaking in public, were not always required to read from a script. But they still did sometimes, as in this case.
On June 12, 1940, Duke was interviewed in Manhattan for the Mutual Broadcasting System’s “Radio Newsreel” series. This series was produced by the BBC for its home listeners, and on this occasion the host was British actor Norman Pierce. Pierce and Ellington are clearly both reading from scripts. However, in this kind of situation Duke was given the questions in advance, so at least we can trust that the answers are really his own. And there is some very interesting content here. Most notably, at 3:10 Pierce asks, other than Duke himself, who is the finest composer that America had yet produced. Duke names Gershwin, and explains why. And at 3:57 when Pierce asks about Duke’s goals, he expounds at length about his interest in contributing to American Negro music. He states that the Negro has more to offer emotionally—and a greater range of emotions—than any other group in the country.
At the very beginning the audio is a bit garbled, but Pierce is saying, “Percy Grainger, the noted composer, has compared him with Delius and Bach.” Other topics discussed are the number of Duke’s compositions up to that date (at 1:00), the band’s use of sheet music (1:45), that “Reminiscing in Tempo” was Duke’s favorite of his own pieces (at 2:30), European audiences (3:28), the trend toward softer and more melodic music (6:22), and more. Between 1:50 and 2:05, you will notice that they both refer to musicians as “boys,” a standard practice of that era that I discussed in an earlier essay. (By the 1960s, when “boys” was no longer acceptable, Duke referred to his musicians as “kids.”) Finally, at 7:14, Pierce asks which of his recent songs he likes best, and Duke introduces and plays at the piano “Never No Lament.” OK, let’s listen:
Jim Brown, one of our Founder Members, is an audio engineer. He has taken the above file and changed the sound in order to get more crispness and clarity. Here is his remastering of the same interview:
Here’s one more little tidbit, just for fun: On June 10, 1940, Ellington and band participated in “America Dances,” another radio series that was also heard on the BBC. Duke’s theme song at the beginning of the broadcast was “East St. Louis Toodle-o” (sometimes spelled “Toodle-oo”), and the announcer expected to hear that at the end. But while he announces “..Toodle-o,” the band is playing “..Lament.” I’m sure that as soon as the broadcast ended, the host and Duke both turned to each other and asked “What happened there?!” Here it is:
And here’s an unrelated but fun item. In July 2024, someone posted online an early TV Halloween program where the guests, including Ellington, are wearing masks! This was broadcast October 31, 1950. Enjoy!
More Ellington interview and music to come, soon!
All the best,
Lewis