Ira Gitler talks About Drums with Tony Williams, Art Blakey,Cozy Cole, & Mel Lewis,AUDIO!;Part 2, +Bonus

(Paying subscribers, your bonus is at the bottom as usual.)

Part 1 of this audio discussion is here. You will also find there the printed article that was taken partly from this discussion, as well as from two other discussions for which I do not have the recordings. I shared that article because it’s of course relevant, and has nice photos, and it does help to determine who said what. But, as I noted, it is very different from the actual discussion. For one thing, comments from all three panels are weaved together there, whereas here you get to hear this conversation as it happened, uninterrupted and unedited.

Ira Gitler, our host for the panel, was one of the best-known jazz journalists of his day and his name is probably familiar to you. But let me tell you something that you probably don’t know about him: He had a second life in the world of ice hockey. He coached an ice hockey club for about 45 years and authored several books: Make the Team in Ice Hockey (1971), Blood on the Ice: Hockey's Most Violent Moments (1974), and Ice Hockey A to Z (1978). He was also one of three authors of Hockey! The Story of the World's Fastest Sport (1969).

Ira’s son Fitz recalls:

Many musicians knew of my father's double life. In 1997 we went to hear Lou Donaldson at the Village Vanguard. After the set we made our way back to the “green room” (the club's former kitchen, full of cases of bottles for the bar). Before saying hello, Lou looked up at father and drawled in his high voice, “What are your Rangers going to do now without Messier?” It was worth it just to hear Papa Lou say “Meh-see-yay” as no one else could have.

(In 1997, ice hockey champion Mark Messier had left the New York Rangers to join the Vancouver Canucks.)

In today’s segment, the musicians discuss East Coast versus West Coast jazz, the importance and use of the bass drum, drumming in big bands versus small groups, and more. At 20:30, Blakey talks about adjusting to the faster tempos of a small group after leaving “B’s” (Billy Eckstine’s) band.

Here’s a photo from that day of Blakey making a point, while Tony Williams listens (with Mel Lewis in the foreground):

At 22:20, Cozy tells about his experience playing in the Broadway musical Carmen Jones. Here’s some background: That was an all-Black adaptation of Bizet's opera Carmen, which opened on December 2, 1943 and ran through February 10, 1945. (As you may know, in 1954 it was released as a movie starring Harry Belafonte, Dorothy Dandridge, and Pearl Bailey.) In the show, Cole appeared on stage playing a drum solo in ''Beat Out Dat Rhythm on a Drum,” which you can hear in the original cast recording. But the rest of the time he was in the pit, and although it helped that he was studying at the Juilliard School during that time, it was a new experience for him to play what he calls a “semi-opera,” with an orchestra conducted by Robert Russell Bennett, a distinguished composer and arranger. As Cole notes, the first sound heard in the show was his crash cymbals, so he really felt the pressure. But they played it out of town before opening on Broadway, so he was ready when the time came.

(Paying subscribers will find the original Playbill for Carmen Jones below.)

Here’s the conversation:

Next time we will continue from this exact point!

All the best,
Lewis