These materials were uncovered by the late researcher and radio host Phil Schaap (1951-2021), during a period when he was working in the Savoy Records archives.
Very interesting read. I don’t listen to 78s very often but I actually prefer the overall sound of the band on the unissued takes and wonder if thats because they haven’t been remastered? The earlier tracks just have a bit more “qi” and i just wonder if something has been lost in the polishing.
I agree. I'm a long retired recording engineer who only did live jazz, and I listen to music on my computer through a very high quality playback system. I find the 'remastered" version with sizzling highs and losing sound of the bass. The bassist sounds thin.
Many people who own 78s would agree with you. There is a vibrancy in 78s, and a surprising amount of presence, that is indeed often lost in remastering, especially when they are played by people who know the best equipment, needles etc. THANK YOU!
Thanks for this. I've always loved Fats since first hearing him 40-50 years ago, and I love Tadd's writing a lot for almost as long. A few years ago, I read a bio, and in the process did lots of listening to LPs with very nice orchestral writing he'd done for major players. And I learned that he'd written some of the classic band charts that stick in my brain, including some of Eckstine's biggest hits back in the '40s.
Agreed Allen--I assume Jim is thinking of the 1950 sessions with Miles and Sarah--I think Budd Johnson and/or George Treadwell did those arrangements. THANK YOU ALLEN AND JIM!
Love this stuff; I also find Ernie Henry's playing to be very advanced, though what was he? 21? Also, Lewis, you probably know this, and it may even be irrelevant, but Curley Russell told me that, because of the recording ban, the record labels use to backdate recordings, making some of the dates inaccurate.
Hi Allen! Yes, Henry was a very original player, even at the young age of 21. I prefer the word "strike," since "ban" implies some kind of government action, when of course it was called by the musicians union. That doesn't affect most recording dates, because luckily we have other ways to confirm dates, such as musicians' itineraries and song copyright dates. THANK YOU ALLEN!
Wonderful, much thx Lewis. Looking forward to part 2. You know I visited Key West 3 or 4 times, searching for Fats Navarro's roots? (And spoke to a sister and a half sister of his.)
Yes, I wrote a feature about it which later became one of the chapters in my 2022 book "KEEP SWINGNG: 33 Jazzmeesters van de 20ste eeuw". I can send you an English version (through Google translate) if you are interested.
I might write an essay about this at some point. Even the famous set entitled The Complete Blue Note Recordings of Thelonious Monk is not complete, because it omits a bunch of incomplete takes. THANK YOU!
Great to hear this! I am more than sure that Fats' high note in take 6 sealed the deal on it's release, at a time when Dizzy's high note excursions were very popular. P.S. I wrote an arrangement for Harry Scorzo's multi-string group, Vio-Fonik, of The Tadd Walk, including a harmonized soli of Fats' two chorus solo. This has never been released to the public, but I have a cassette tape of it. I don't know how, but I'd love for you to hear it, Lewis.
Next week we will listen to The Tadd Walk--yes, Fats's solo on that is amazing. I'd love to hear your chart--I can email you the simplest method for digitizing cassettes, or you can make a low-fi dub by playing it on your cassette player while recording with Voice Memos on your iPhone. Let me know please. THANK YOU DAN!
For an interesting comparison, here's Lee Morgan's "Hocus-Pocus" from his exceptional Dec. 21, 1963 THE SIDEWINDER session for Blue Note with Morgan, Joe Henderson, Barry Harris, Bob Cranshaw, and Billy Higgins. Same chord changes, similar tempo and format.
The A section of "A Bebop Carol[l]" is certainly compatible with "Mean to Me," but I think it more resembles the A section of "The Glory of Love." (The B is certainly based of "Mean to Me.)
Good point--It's not exactly "Mean to Me," despite the resemblance of the first few notes, and I was trying to place what song it was. I've added your point, with a credit to you. THANK YOU CARL!
Regarding wrongly attributed song titles, my pet hate is Squeeze Me and Just Squeeze Me.
When I put on a record of modernists playing what the label says is Squeeze Me (Waller-Williams) it usually turns out to be Duke’s cloying Just Squeeze Me. Older musicians, usually from the Condon school, manage the correct song! I’ve just put on Ruby Braff’s “Live At The New School” (1974), and Braff plays what is labelled Squeeze Me, with correct composer credits. Annoyingly, it turns out to be Just Squeeze Me, which Ruby acknowledges afterwards.
Obviously Braff didn’t get to see the finished product, although I'm surprised that he didn’t choose the earlier composition. Irritatingly, he goes on to play a couple more hackneyed Ellington compositions, It Don’t Mean A Thing and Rockin’ In Rhythm. To compound things the disc concludes with him playing Nobody Else But You, which he attributes to Armstrong and Hines instead of Don Redman!
Ha ha--yes, this is an example of "Don't Get Me Started"! I'm aware of the common confusion between those two tunes. And as I noted, and as you said as well, the composer credits are not compiled by the musicians, but by someone at the record company—and the musicians often don't know who the composer is anyway!! THANK YOU!
The late Geoffrey Wheeler told me there is some unissued Dial material. I don't know if this is incomplete stuff. Also, isn't there some unissued Serge Chaloff from Savoy?
Very interesting read. I don’t listen to 78s very often but I actually prefer the overall sound of the band on the unissued takes and wonder if thats because they haven’t been remastered? The earlier tracks just have a bit more “qi” and i just wonder if something has been lost in the polishing.
I agree. I'm a long retired recording engineer who only did live jazz, and I listen to music on my computer through a very high quality playback system. I find the 'remastered" version with sizzling highs and losing sound of the bass. The bassist sounds thin.
Good points Jim. And I chose this one over another remastering that sounded even worse. THANK YOU JIM!
Many people who own 78s would agree with you. There is a vibrancy in 78s, and a surprising amount of presence, that is indeed often lost in remastering, especially when they are played by people who know the best equipment, needles etc. THANK YOU!
Thanks for this. I've always loved Fats since first hearing him 40-50 years ago, and I love Tadd's writing a lot for almost as long. A few years ago, I read a bio, and in the process did lots of listening to LPs with very nice orchestral writing he'd done for major players. And I learned that he'd written some of the classic band charts that stick in my brain, including some of Eckstine's biggest hits back in the '40s.
Tadd also wrote some very advanced things for Harlan Leonard, as early as 1940, I think.
And I'm remembering some nice early thing for Sarah
yes, I think there's a nice version of "If You Could See Me" Now with Freddie Webster (IIRC) -
My almost 85-year old memory is flaky, but maybe her early stuff with Miles reissued on Columbia?
Sorry I am not sure; I know some of them but I am not aware if Dameron wrote any of the arrangements.
Agreed Allen--I assume Jim is thinking of the 1950 sessions with Miles and Sarah--I think Budd Johnson and/or George Treadwell did those arrangements. THANK YOU ALLEN AND JIM!
Love this stuff; I also find Ernie Henry's playing to be very advanced, though what was he? 21? Also, Lewis, you probably know this, and it may even be irrelevant, but Curley Russell told me that, because of the recording ban, the record labels use to backdate recordings, making some of the dates inaccurate.
Hi Allen! Yes, Henry was a very original player, even at the young age of 21. I prefer the word "strike," since "ban" implies some kind of government action, when of course it was called by the musicians union. That doesn't affect most recording dates, because luckily we have other ways to confirm dates, such as musicians' itineraries and song copyright dates. THANK YOU ALLEN!
This is bebop heaven. Thanks Lewis! Great quintet all conversant in the new language of bop.
THANK YOU DAVID!
Wonderful, much thx Lewis. Looking forward to part 2. You know I visited Key West 3 or 4 times, searching for Fats Navarro's roots? (And spoke to a sister and a half sister of his.)
I didn't know that--very cool! Did you ever write anything about those experiences? THANK YOU BERT!
Yes, I wrote a feature about it which later became one of the chapters in my 2022 book "KEEP SWINGNG: 33 Jazzmeesters van de 20ste eeuw". I can send you an English version (through Google translate) if you are interested.
Yes, please do send it--and the Dutch original if you don't mind (I don't have your book yet). THANK YOU BERT
Great music, thank you!!
The surfacing of this material raises the thorny question of those incomplete Complete sets that have appeared over the years. What went wrong?
There seems to be three levels of completeness:
1. The Complete - This may or may not be complete.
2. The Completer - More complete than The Complete because it has extra material.
3. The Completest - Is complete, although there is no surviving documentation to prove it.
I might write an essay about this at some point. Even the famous set entitled The Complete Blue Note Recordings of Thelonious Monk is not complete, because it omits a bunch of incomplete takes. THANK YOU!
Great to hear this! I am more than sure that Fats' high note in take 6 sealed the deal on it's release, at a time when Dizzy's high note excursions were very popular. P.S. I wrote an arrangement for Harry Scorzo's multi-string group, Vio-Fonik, of The Tadd Walk, including a harmonized soli of Fats' two chorus solo. This has never been released to the public, but I have a cassette tape of it. I don't know how, but I'd love for you to hear it, Lewis.
Next week we will listen to The Tadd Walk--yes, Fats's solo on that is amazing. I'd love to hear your chart--I can email you the simplest method for digitizing cassettes, or you can make a low-fi dub by playing it on your cassette player while recording with Voice Memos on your iPhone. Let me know please. THANK YOU DAN!
For an interesting comparison, here's Lee Morgan's "Hocus-Pocus" from his exceptional Dec. 21, 1963 THE SIDEWINDER session for Blue Note with Morgan, Joe Henderson, Barry Harris, Bob Cranshaw, and Billy Higgins. Same chord changes, similar tempo and format.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMaftvlRM5E&list=PLMAB89BlQ_bnEB1BGBLghkty30mWcZtkv&index=5
Great comparison! THANKS BILL!
Here's another interesting comparison from Kenny Dorham's 2 HORNS/2 RHYTHM, done for Riverside in 1957 with Ernie Henry, bassist Eddie Mathias, and drummer G.T. Hogan. The tune is "Noose Bloos," somewhat more abstract due to the absence of piano. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An7hYBqmcPs&list=OLAK5uy_lG0j0jJa-B3noCBHS2PcZUw_sjegjLaQo&index=7
Another great one, and Ernie Henry yet--THANKS BILL!
The recent Mosaic V-Disc small groups set does omit false starts and incomplete material, but it does make it clear to the record buyer.
Julian Vein
At least they are honest about that. Good! THANK YOU!
The A section of "A Bebop Carol[l]" is certainly compatible with "Mean to Me," but I think it more resembles the A section of "The Glory of Love." (The B is certainly based of "Mean to Me.)
Good point--It's not exactly "Mean to Me," despite the resemblance of the first few notes, and I was trying to place what song it was. I've added your point, with a credit to you. THANK YOU CARL!
Regarding wrongly attributed song titles, my pet hate is Squeeze Me and Just Squeeze Me.
When I put on a record of modernists playing what the label says is Squeeze Me (Waller-Williams) it usually turns out to be Duke’s cloying Just Squeeze Me. Older musicians, usually from the Condon school, manage the correct song! I’ve just put on Ruby Braff’s “Live At The New School” (1974), and Braff plays what is labelled Squeeze Me, with correct composer credits. Annoyingly, it turns out to be Just Squeeze Me, which Ruby acknowledges afterwards.
Obviously Braff didn’t get to see the finished product, although I'm surprised that he didn’t choose the earlier composition. Irritatingly, he goes on to play a couple more hackneyed Ellington compositions, It Don’t Mean A Thing and Rockin’ In Rhythm. To compound things the disc concludes with him playing Nobody Else But You, which he attributes to Armstrong and Hines instead of Don Redman!
Ha ha--yes, this is an example of "Don't Get Me Started"! I'm aware of the common confusion between those two tunes. And as I noted, and as you said as well, the composer credits are not compiled by the musicians, but by someone at the record company—and the musicians often don't know who the composer is anyway!! THANK YOU!
The late Geoffrey Wheeler told me there is some unissued Dial material. I don't know if this is incomplete stuff. Also, isn't there some unissued Serge Chaloff from Savoy?
I knew Wheeler just a little. I can't think of unissued Dial just now, but I do know the Chaloff. THANK YOU