Wes Montgomery: Unheard 18-minute Audio Interview with Ira Gitler, + Bonus

(Paying Subscribers, at the very bottom you’ll get the full Gitler piece on Wes, and the entire guitar issue of Downbeat with stories about Mingus and others.)

The late Ira Gitler (1928-2019) was one of the foremost jazz critics and historians. We already enjoyed a long unedited panel discussion between Ira and four drummers, posted in four parts along with some history of Ira. (Part 1 is here.) Today I’m sharing with you a conversation that he had with the beloved guitarist Wes Montgomery. As with the drummers’ recording, this was never intended for others to hear. It was Gitler’s personal recording from which to write up his article.

In my experience, most interviews before about 1960 were based on handwritten notes. That is important to know, because what you might assume are direct quotes of what a musician said are usually paraphrases. But from about 1960 on, most authors recorded their interviews, and still do. Then, the writer needs to turn this into an article, because most magazines do not publish oral histories. A simple straight transcription would not suffice. And as you’ll see by comparing the audio with the published version, also included here, most of what Wes said is in there, but it has been re-ordered and made into part of a flowing story. (Obviously, this method does not apply for a periodical like Cadence magazine that specifically publishes transcripts of interviews.)

Here are Ira Gitler’s memories of Wes and of the interview, courtesy of his son Fitz Gitler, excerpted from a piece that was probably for the Japanese magazine Swing Journal, and never before published in English (the complete piece is at the bottom for Paying Subscribers):

When I met Wes I found him to be as natural personally as his playing, a warm individual with a sense of humor. It was always a pleasure to be in his company whether he was performing or not. At the time I didn’t know about his fear of flying or that he was often stressed. I imagine this, along with being overweight, led to his high blood pressure. All I know that we really got along well and I was pleased when Downbeat asked me to go up to Boston, where he would be playing, to interview him for an article I would then write with an emphasis about playing within the context of an organ group. As I remember it, I wanted to bring in other aspects of Wes’s playing and his thoughts on non-musical subjects. We were happy to see each other but there wasn’t much time for the interview--between sets and, also briefly, after the gig. I had to fly back to New York the next day. 

In fact, at the 15-minute mark of the audio you will hear Ira saying that he wished he had more time, but that he has to catch an 11:45 am plane back to New York City. Then Wes tells him that he will be “in town” (that is, NYC) soon, and Ira muses that he could have waited to do the interview there, but he adds that they (Downbeat) “don’t have to know that.” In any case, so it won’t be a wasted trip, Ira decides at that moment to build the written piece around his Boston visit.

Gitler also considers mentioning that he met Thelonious Monk at the airport. (Apparently he told Wes about that before the tape was started.) He did not include that detail in the published article. But that helps us to date the interview, because Monk’s quartet had just performed for a week at Boston’s famous Jazz Workshop, finishing late on May 17, 1964, and Wes opened there on May 18. So I would guess that at the NYC airport on May 18, Gitler met Monk arriving from Boston. If I’m right, the interview was conducted later that same day, and Ira flew back to NYC on the morning of May 19.

As Ira noted above, much of the interview is about the musical and practical aspects of playing with an organ—including the hassles of carting it around! There is also a long discussion in the middle about life on the road as a touring musician.

So, here is Gitler’s actual audio interview tape:

And here is how he wrote it up, on the relevant pages of the Downbeat issue of July 16, 1964 (the complete issue is at the bottom for Paying Subscribers):

Montgomery,downbeat 1964 07 16

1.46MB ∙ PDF file

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All the best,
Lewis