Chuck Mangione (born in 1940 in Rochester, N.Y.) earned his Bachelor’s degree at the Eastman School of Music in 1963, and he returned there as a faculty member from 1968 to 1972, the same years that I attended the University of Rochester, of which Eastman is a part.
I wrote a similar review of a Mangione concert at Michigan State. Similar in that while acknowledging the sold out audience’s real enthusiasm and good vibes, there were some problems in the music that I made fun of (it was Halloween and “tricks” came into play in the review), while also acknowledging a strong band.
Now that I’ve had some experience playing on trumpet I think I’d hear it differently, not focusing on the clams but on his sound and flow, and what’s not to like melodicism.
And my review was no where near as insightful as this.
There was no campus backlash, but nonetheless feelings of guilt on my end.
Maligning Mangione was a thing in the press then and jumping on that bandwagon was the easy way out. I’m sure there were solo segments that were brilliant and deserved more punch up than bring down.
It would be fascinating to see your review, if you still have it. But, not to give away Part 2, you need to know that back in 1971 I don’t know if anybody already was maligning Mangione--or at least I didn’t know of any criticism ---this was before even his first pop hits. As a kid writing up my own ideas, I certainly was not jumping on any “bandwagon.” THANK YOU LAZARO
I bought an Art Blakey K-Tel cut out back in the 70’s with Mangione in the band, thinking it might be an unreleased blue note fusion record. It was straight ahead Messengers and I was pleasantly surprised. I think Gap Mangione may have been in the band as well.
The drummer with Gene Ludwig was Randy Gelispie, not Gillespie.
25 years ago, after decades of day-jobbing in the auto plants and gigging at night, Randy became one of the "Professors of Jazz" in Michigan State's Jazz Studies Program, which, under Rodney Whitaker's leadership has become one of the leading programs in the country. And in his late 80s Randy's still at it.
I’ll fix that later—thanks! I was a guest artist with Rodney at Michigan State U around 2017 and I don’t recall meeting Randy at that time. THANK YOU MARK
He is certainly much more than his signature hit "Hurts So Good"- being an educator as well as a musician was something I didn't know about him before.
Lewis, thanks so much sharing these wonderful youthful memories--touches of naivete all part of the mix. I was especially taken with the "Bus" and Scarborough Fair" selections. And cannot wait to read about the ensuing "firestorm."
Beyond the unintentional comedy your review thoroughly and clearly addresses the music as you heard it. What more could a reader ask?
The fairness principle compels me to admit I took a stab at writing about jazz years ago. As in your case my own frequent gaffes were the product of enthusiasm although there was little to redeem my articles. I understand Freddie Hubbard carried something of a difficult reputation, but he was wonderfully cooperative with me when I interviewed him. Among his comments about some noted trumpet players:
"It's hard to play the trumpet with feeling. Like Chuck Mangione—he doesn't play loud or hard, but he has that feeling. He's not trying to be hip."
This is great Lew, I didn't know you spent a little time with Chuck back then. His tune on the Cannonball Adderley and his Orchestra "African Waltz" record called "Something Else" was a nice surprise! Now, are you sure the bass player comes back in on beat 4 after that break?!?!
This is a great story, and I wish there were more musically critical reviews of jazz concerts and recordings today. I was surprised to see Clare Fischer's "The Duke" on the program. His 1968 album "Thesaurus" was a great influence on me. I loved Fischer's piano introduction and the interplay in his writing - it reminded me of Ellington's "Lightnin'" and other works from the 1930s.
In 1970, I saw an ad selling Clare Fischer charts, and I used my beer & cigarette money to buy charts from the whole album - except for "Upper Manhattan Medical Group", because it was a Strayhorn piece. The solos are wonderful, and Fischer melds his influences from Meade Lux Lewis, through Fats Waller, to Lennie Tristano with his own unique voice - from the muscular to the achingly lyrical. I studied the piece and wrote an "insert" on "The Duke" -being a background riff for an additional solo chorus - in what I still believe to be assimilation of Fischer's piece. At McGill University, I was the assistant director of the nascent student jazz band, and we played "The Duke" In concert, around the same year as did the Eastman students.
While I don't have a recording of the McGill band, I can certainly critique the Eastman band ~~~
The opening piano solo is tentative - the tempo is too fast and the soloists are callow. The ensemble work is sloppy, due to the tempo. Yet, I admire that Mangione chose to program it. I'm sure there were some spectacular moments in their rehearsals - this concert is but one representation, played but once in front of an audience.
My friend Bill Dobbins, later became director of the Eastman band, and he was a pioneer in bringing an historical perspective to jazz education. Like me, Bill adored Fischer - but he went on to transcribe Fischer's earlier jazz orchestra recording, the 1963 "Extensions". One year, Bill brought Fisher in as a guest artist and asked me to share my jazz orchestra arrangement of Fischer's "Bachi". Bill said that Fischer was moved to tears, learning that others in this world cherished his music. Fischer could be prickly, but so what? His music tells the greater story.
Fun fact--somehow I ended up standing right next to Fischer at the 1973 Berkeley CA outdoor jazz fest, while he chatted with Hubert Laws. He was maybe 5'6" and spoke rapidly in a somewhat high voice. THANK YOU ANDREW!
I wrote a similar review of a Mangione concert at Michigan State. Similar in that while acknowledging the sold out audience’s real enthusiasm and good vibes, there were some problems in the music that I made fun of (it was Halloween and “tricks” came into play in the review), while also acknowledging a strong band.
Now that I’ve had some experience playing on trumpet I think I’d hear it differently, not focusing on the clams but on his sound and flow, and what’s not to like melodicism.
And my review was no where near as insightful as this.
There was no campus backlash, but nonetheless feelings of guilt on my end.
Maligning Mangione was a thing in the press then and jumping on that bandwagon was the easy way out. I’m sure there were solo segments that were brilliant and deserved more punch up than bring down.
It would be fascinating to see your review, if you still have it. But, not to give away Part 2, you need to know that back in 1971 I don’t know if anybody already was maligning Mangione--or at least I didn’t know of any criticism ---this was before even his first pop hits. As a kid writing up my own ideas, I certainly was not jumping on any “bandwagon.” THANK YOU LAZARO
Right, I was referring to my review and me jumping on the bandwagon. That wasn’t intended as a comment directed to you at all!
I’ve been searching the web for the Michigan State News on line archive from ‘78-‘83 and haven’t found it. Prolly just as well.
Ha—ok, I get it. And yours was a few years later than mine, when Mangione was indeed playing pop music. THANK YOU LAZARO!
I bought an Art Blakey K-Tel cut out back in the 70’s with Mangione in the band, thinking it might be an unreleased blue note fusion record. It was straight ahead Messengers and I was pleasantly surprised. I think Gap Mangione may have been in the band as well.
I don’t think Gap ever worked with Blakey—famously, young Keith Jarrett was in the band with Chuck. Thank you Randy!
This is a great story! Mangione's band always had a clear and creative musical vision. Thank you!
As usual, the bass amp is too loud.
Ha ha very true George!
The drummer with Gene Ludwig was Randy Gelispie, not Gillespie.
25 years ago, after decades of day-jobbing in the auto plants and gigging at night, Randy became one of the "Professors of Jazz" in Michigan State's Jazz Studies Program, which, under Rodney Whitaker's leadership has become one of the leading programs in the country. And in his late 80s Randy's still at it.
I’ll fix that later—thanks! I was a guest artist with Rodney at Michigan State U around 2017 and I don’t recall meeting Randy at that time. THANK YOU MARK
He is certainly much more than his signature hit "Hurts So Good"- being an educator as well as a musician was something I didn't know about him before.
Chuck Mangione was the first live jazz gig I saw after arriving in Rochester as a student in 1985; at the Eastman school 😊
Very cool. Thank you Sandeep!
Lewis, thanks so much sharing these wonderful youthful memories--touches of naivete all part of the mix. I was especially taken with the "Bus" and Scarborough Fair" selections. And cannot wait to read about the ensuing "firestorm."
THANK YOU JOSH!
Beyond the unintentional comedy your review thoroughly and clearly addresses the music as you heard it. What more could a reader ask?
The fairness principle compels me to admit I took a stab at writing about jazz years ago. As in your case my own frequent gaffes were the product of enthusiasm although there was little to redeem my articles. I understand Freddie Hubbard carried something of a difficult reputation, but he was wonderfully cooperative with me when I interviewed him. Among his comments about some noted trumpet players:
"It's hard to play the trumpet with feeling. Like Chuck Mangione—he doesn't play loud or hard, but he has that feeling. He's not trying to be hip."
Nice comment from Freddie! I'd be curious to see the whole article, and any others you'd like to share: Lrpjazz@gmail.com. THANK YOU CRAIG
I always respected Mangione's playing, and remember being happy at the time of his pop hits that he was making a buck!
Ha ha --that's a good attitude. THANKS JIM!
This is great Lew, I didn't know you spent a little time with Chuck back then. His tune on the Cannonball Adderley and his Orchestra "African Waltz" record called "Something Else" was a nice surprise! Now, are you sure the bass player comes back in on beat 4 after that break?!?!
Oh, you mean "Something Different"--yes, very cool--here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMK5aWobUyM
As for the beat 4, please correct me and let me know. I often fix errors after posting. THANK YOU DANIEL !
This is a great story, and I wish there were more musically critical reviews of jazz concerts and recordings today. I was surprised to see Clare Fischer's "The Duke" on the program. His 1968 album "Thesaurus" was a great influence on me. I loved Fischer's piano introduction and the interplay in his writing - it reminded me of Ellington's "Lightnin'" and other works from the 1930s.
In 1970, I saw an ad selling Clare Fischer charts, and I used my beer & cigarette money to buy charts from the whole album - except for "Upper Manhattan Medical Group", because it was a Strayhorn piece. The solos are wonderful, and Fischer melds his influences from Meade Lux Lewis, through Fats Waller, to Lennie Tristano with his own unique voice - from the muscular to the achingly lyrical. I studied the piece and wrote an "insert" on "The Duke" -being a background riff for an additional solo chorus - in what I still believe to be assimilation of Fischer's piece. At McGill University, I was the assistant director of the nascent student jazz band, and we played "The Duke" In concert, around the same year as did the Eastman students.
While I don't have a recording of the McGill band, I can certainly critique the Eastman band ~~~
The opening piano solo is tentative - the tempo is too fast and the soloists are callow. The ensemble work is sloppy, due to the tempo. Yet, I admire that Mangione chose to program it. I'm sure there were some spectacular moments in their rehearsals - this concert is but one representation, played but once in front of an audience.
My friend Bill Dobbins, later became director of the Eastman band, and he was a pioneer in bringing an historical perspective to jazz education. Like me, Bill adored Fischer - but he went on to transcribe Fischer's earlier jazz orchestra recording, the 1963 "Extensions". One year, Bill brought Fisher in as a guest artist and asked me to share my jazz orchestra arrangement of Fischer's "Bachi". Bill said that Fischer was moved to tears, learning that others in this world cherished his music. Fischer could be prickly, but so what? His music tells the greater story.
Yes, Fischer was certainly a topnotch composer, arranger, and pianist. That's great that you, like Mangione, were into his music when the work was new. Michael Kahr, originally from Austria, has done fine work on Fischer: https://www.academia.edu/39608085/ASPECTS_OF_CONTEXT_AND_HARMONY_IN_THE_MUSIC_OF_CLARE_FISCHER
Fun fact--somehow I ended up standing right next to Fischer at the 1973 Berkeley CA outdoor jazz fest, while he chatted with Hubert Laws. He was maybe 5'6" and spoke rapidly in a somewhat high voice. THANK YOU ANDREW!