This was a super interesting read as always! I had always been curious about the dubbing on Psalm but had never noticed the dub on Resolution until now! As for the statement about Coltrane’s tone on the second sax overdubbed on Psalm, I have always believed that the reason it sounds like that is because he is playing an overtone on his low D (concert C) first overblowing to the middle octave and then up to the palm key range. You can even kind of hear the A (concert G) in the middle of the overtone series almost speak when he makes the octave jump. Either way, I’m really enjoying reading these and thinking about this truly astounding record for the millionth time. Looking forward to the next parts!
That's a great point about the octave. That kind of overtone exercise is something he explicitly practiced, so your explanation makes sense. Thank you Michael!
Fascinating. While overdubbing originated in the 1920's and may have legit use on occasion I surprised that Van Gelder did it and that too on such a seminal recording.
Yes, nad that he didn't even remember doing it until I bothered him about it! Before tape recording (ca.1950) there are only a handful of examples of overdubbing. But the only method in those days was to play back the original recording while performing the new part. THANK YOU SANDEEP
So great to read on Tranes birthday. Thanks for your research. This dissemination has been going on with you since I was in grad school, 1990! Love it, and that the information keeps unfolding.
That album was recorded December 9 of 1964, and interestingly Sam Rivers (whose birthday is in two days, 9/25 and would have been 100) recorded "Fucshia swing song" two days after "A Love Supreme " at Van Gelders. A great couple days in Englewood Cliffs.
Today is also George Garzone's birthday. He told me last night he is spending the day recording with the Fringe.
Yes, you and I go way back! It's nice to connect Trane with Sam Rivers— and with George Garzone, a great musician who I played with a number of times in the '80s. Didn't realize that George has the same birthday as Trane! THANK YOU JEFF!
Thanks again for the wonderful investigating research. This really adds to the knowledge and legacy of John Coltrane. It's important to get this info asap while there is access to as many of the living participants as possible. When I played with Elvin Jones and Jackie McLean I treasured the stories they told.
Hi Greg, awesome record, glad Lewis included the link. Have you ever done a podcast interview about your time with Elvin? The oral history there would be welcome.
This is amazing! I had heard the other sax at the end of Psalm, and wasn't sure if Elvin's tympani was live or not, but that Resolution overdub is completely new to me. Once you hear it, it's very clear, but I can't imagine picking it out if I weren't looking for it. Wow.
Interesting, the original ending has Coltrane dead centre with no panning, and in fact the horn sounds bigger as a result on the original! Shame you had to stand your ground as you did, when it is actually obvious that you were correct. It was likely not malicious though, just time colouring the memory of such an important milestone in many peoples's lives. I am still not convinced by the Resolution 'overdub' though. I always liked how the 2nd and 3rd high Ebs had a slightly human quality to them, sounding deliberately backed off in dynamic a bit. It would also seem a much riskier thing to do, 'dropping in' on a pre-exisiting melody in those days. If it had gone wrong they could have possibly ruined the whole take right? Perhaps they had a spare track to work with? Wasn't Van Gelder still recording via an 8 track desk onto 2 track direct in 1964 still? How did they even overdub back then?
Yes, I'm not sure why they felt they had to "fix" that note on Resolution. As for overdubbing, that was an old and very common practice by 1964. Rudy himself had been overdubbing since 1954, as I mentioned in this essay. THANKS STEVE
This was a super interesting read as always! I had always been curious about the dubbing on Psalm but had never noticed the dub on Resolution until now! As for the statement about Coltrane’s tone on the second sax overdubbed on Psalm, I have always believed that the reason it sounds like that is because he is playing an overtone on his low D (concert C) first overblowing to the middle octave and then up to the palm key range. You can even kind of hear the A (concert G) in the middle of the overtone series almost speak when he makes the octave jump. Either way, I’m really enjoying reading these and thinking about this truly astounding record for the millionth time. Looking forward to the next parts!
That's a great point about the octave. That kind of overtone exercise is something he explicitly practiced, so your explanation makes sense. Thank you Michael!
Fascinating. While overdubbing originated in the 1920's and may have legit use on occasion I surprised that Van Gelder did it and that too on such a seminal recording.
Yes, nad that he didn't even remember doing it until I bothered him about it! Before tape recording (ca.1950) there are only a handful of examples of overdubbing. But the only method in those days was to play back the original recording while performing the new part. THANK YOU SANDEEP
So great to read on Tranes birthday. Thanks for your research. This dissemination has been going on with you since I was in grad school, 1990! Love it, and that the information keeps unfolding.
That album was recorded December 9 of 1964, and interestingly Sam Rivers (whose birthday is in two days, 9/25 and would have been 100) recorded "Fucshia swing song" two days after "A Love Supreme " at Van Gelders. A great couple days in Englewood Cliffs.
Today is also George Garzone's birthday. He told me last night he is spending the day recording with the Fringe.
Thanks Dr. Porter.
Yes, you and I go way back! It's nice to connect Trane with Sam Rivers— and with George Garzone, a great musician who I played with a number of times in the '80s. Didn't realize that George has the same birthday as Trane! THANK YOU JEFF!
Happy Birthday, Trane.
Thanks again for the wonderful investigating research. This really adds to the knowledge and legacy of John Coltrane. It's important to get this info asap while there is access to as many of the living participants as possible. When I played with Elvin Jones and Jackie McLean I treasured the stories they told.
Thank you! I hope my readers know about your guitar work and your recording with Elvin: https://youtu.be/dvaDFxNJuM4?si=R7o5ur6QX9cqqXtS
THANK YOU GREG!
Hi Greg, awesome record, glad Lewis included the link. Have you ever done a podcast interview about your time with Elvin? The oral history there would be welcome.
This is amazing! I had heard the other sax at the end of Psalm, and wasn't sure if Elvin's tympani was live or not, but that Resolution overdub is completely new to me. Once you hear it, it's very clear, but I can't imagine picking it out if I weren't looking for it. Wow.
Thank you. Lots more
To come. THANK YOU NATHAN
Interesting, the original ending has Coltrane dead centre with no panning, and in fact the horn sounds bigger as a result on the original! Shame you had to stand your ground as you did, when it is actually obvious that you were correct. It was likely not malicious though, just time colouring the memory of such an important milestone in many peoples's lives. I am still not convinced by the Resolution 'overdub' though. I always liked how the 2nd and 3rd high Ebs had a slightly human quality to them, sounding deliberately backed off in dynamic a bit. It would also seem a much riskier thing to do, 'dropping in' on a pre-exisiting melody in those days. If it had gone wrong they could have possibly ruined the whole take right? Perhaps they had a spare track to work with? Wasn't Van Gelder still recording via an 8 track desk onto 2 track direct in 1964 still? How did they even overdub back then?
Yes, I'm not sure why they felt they had to "fix" that note on Resolution. As for overdubbing, that was an old and very common practice by 1964. Rudy himself had been overdubbing since 1954, as I mentioned in this essay. THANKS STEVE