I could sob with joy and other emotions after my first hearing of this interview. Bird was a genius. The interviewer was trying to provoke Bird into trash talking? Possible? Bird was uniformly generous and kind with his remarks. He praised a lot of guys as musicians and humans. Davey Schildkraut. Another moment to sob. Ranks along side with the Paul Desmond interview. The audio quality sucks but is beside the point. Beautiful thank you Lewis!
Please allow me to gallop in on my hobby horse and rant. We are often told that Bird suffered from mental illness at the end of his life, usually "latent schizophrenia," the Bellevue diagnosis. Unlike the Paul Desmond interview, this one was recorded AFTER his daughter Pree's death, which, by Bird's own account, brought on a profound depression. But listen to him here! He couldn't be more lucid or rational, not to mention sober, and he endures this problematic interview with extraordinary forbearance and grace. I submit that only a very sane and perceptive man could have tiptoed through this minefield so skillfully. It flies in the face of everything we've been told about Bird's final months. Thank you, Lewis, very much indeed!
Thanks much for this very perceptive comment. I agree, and I will add my own rant which is that people seem to think that moods last forever--if Bird was upset that his daughter died, then, they assume, he must have remained upset every single day of his remaining life, 24/7. People do move on! Nice to hear from you, John! I see that you're not the John Purcell who used to work with DeJohnette et al (I believe he's passed on).
Thanks for writing! Back in the 80s I called my band the "Not That John Purcell Quartet." I'm sorry that THAT John Purcell had so many struggles and I'm saddened if he has indeed passed on.
Ha--good name for that band--yes, I was friends with him but he kind of disappeared almost 20 years ago and I heard he was gone. Glad YOU are with us and well!
This is such a wonderful interview - the way Bird spoke of other musicians is wonderful and reflects such respect for the music, musicians and the art and craft. It reminds me of an interview with Paul Bley (from decades later) that I read or heard at some point. Some interviewer was similarly pressing Bley to categorize some musicians as great and others as just good, as just copyists. The interviewer tried to suggest, for example, that Bird was great and Stitt a copyist, and presented several pairings musicians, free jazz and not, and wanted Bley to chose. Bley initially started with his not uncommon spacey, offbeat remarks to dodge the questions, and after he kept being pressed, finally stopped the spacey replies and said (this is a close paraphrase): "Do you know how hard it is to play this music?? Everyone you mentioned, they are all great!" Bird was even more calm, controlled and and as another commenter mentions, also praised them as people. A beautiful interview. Thank you for this and for the wonderful jazz scholarship!
I'm a little late getting to this party, but I've made a transcription of this interview which I will get to Mr. Porter soon. It's a great interview, and consider this hilarious (and very well-intentioned, and even thoughtful) wind-up from Mr. Bachelder, and Bird's simple, but heavy, answer:
BB: Uh, do you feel that Jazz is like a civilization, it starts to grow and grow, like this country of ours, it started with a revolution, and certain patriots expose themselves to the hangman’s noose by their speeches against the powers to be, and so forth and so on, and next thing you know you have an independent country – do you feel that’s what’s happening with Jazz, that every once in a while a guy appears on the scene that has something new to offer, and naturally some of the old schoolboys say “oh, he’ll never make it” and “those guys are crazy” and so forth, and then there’s a leveling off point, where it all is absorbed in one great feeling of expression?
10:11 CP: Well, there, Bob, I’d have to say again it’s a matter of opinion, but if you want mine, I sincerely hope the musicians [will] be much more successful with music than the populace of the earth has been with the idea of civilization.
Can't wait to see it John. Thanks much. Yes, it's common for interviewers to try to get their subject to say what they want them to say. Yet it seems the Parker sidesteps him at every point. And I agree that Bachelder is well-intentioned--he's a good guy and trying to engage Parker in some real issues. THANKS!
I could sob with joy and other emotions after my first hearing of this interview. Bird was a genius. The interviewer was trying to provoke Bird into trash talking? Possible? Bird was uniformly generous and kind with his remarks. He praised a lot of guys as musicians and humans. Davey Schildkraut. Another moment to sob. Ranks along side with the Paul Desmond interview. The audio quality sucks but is beside the point. Beautiful thank you Lewis!
What a wonderful comment, David--So glad you enjoyed it!!
Fascinating! Thanks Lewis!
Thanks Nou! And Welcome to the group!
Wonderful! Can’t wait for more.
Wonderful! Can’t wait for more. Are there more of Bob’s interviews?
The family believes that he recorded one other with a "name" artist (not Bird), but they have yet to dig it up and digitize it.
It's great to see you on Substack—and this is an impressive debut. Congrats and thanks for sharing this.
Thanks friend--you really helped me to get this going!
Thanks for posting this! I’m feeling sad that Phil Schaap isn’t here to enjoy it, and that we will never hear him ruminate on it for hours.
Thank you, Lewis. This is a very interesting interview, and shows what a big heart Parker had.
Thanks Peter--I've been busy setting this up and of course I intended to contact you ASAP--I'm glad you found out about it on your own. Enjoy!
Thanks Lewis -- this is a fascinating document!
Thanks Corey--there's much more to come--a pleasure for you to have joined us!
Hello dear Professor Porter! Fantastic 14 minutes. Thank you!
Thanks Zach--hope you are doing great!
Please allow me to gallop in on my hobby horse and rant. We are often told that Bird suffered from mental illness at the end of his life, usually "latent schizophrenia," the Bellevue diagnosis. Unlike the Paul Desmond interview, this one was recorded AFTER his daughter Pree's death, which, by Bird's own account, brought on a profound depression. But listen to him here! He couldn't be more lucid or rational, not to mention sober, and he endures this problematic interview with extraordinary forbearance and grace. I submit that only a very sane and perceptive man could have tiptoed through this minefield so skillfully. It flies in the face of everything we've been told about Bird's final months. Thank you, Lewis, very much indeed!
Thanks much for this very perceptive comment. I agree, and I will add my own rant which is that people seem to think that moods last forever--if Bird was upset that his daughter died, then, they assume, he must have remained upset every single day of his remaining life, 24/7. People do move on! Nice to hear from you, John! I see that you're not the John Purcell who used to work with DeJohnette et al (I believe he's passed on).
Thanks for writing! Back in the 80s I called my band the "Not That John Purcell Quartet." I'm sorry that THAT John Purcell had so many struggles and I'm saddened if he has indeed passed on.
Ha--good name for that band--yes, I was friends with him but he kind of disappeared almost 20 years ago and I heard he was gone. Glad YOU are with us and well!
I'm an enthusiastic japanese Bird fan and study him.
If it's possible, Mr. Lewis Porter, could you post this trascript on you site or give me it, please?
Hello Chieo, I have not made a transcript of this interview. If you or someone else makes a transcription, I will post it. THANKS!
Thank you, Mr. Porter.
Hi, anyone, could you make a transcript of this interview, please?
Thank you for sharing this, Lewis! It's always a treat to hear Bird speak. Looking forward to reading your material here on Substack
Thank you--WELCOME!
This is such a wonderful interview - the way Bird spoke of other musicians is wonderful and reflects such respect for the music, musicians and the art and craft. It reminds me of an interview with Paul Bley (from decades later) that I read or heard at some point. Some interviewer was similarly pressing Bley to categorize some musicians as great and others as just good, as just copyists. The interviewer tried to suggest, for example, that Bird was great and Stitt a copyist, and presented several pairings musicians, free jazz and not, and wanted Bley to chose. Bley initially started with his not uncommon spacey, offbeat remarks to dodge the questions, and after he kept being pressed, finally stopped the spacey replies and said (this is a close paraphrase): "Do you know how hard it is to play this music?? Everyone you mentioned, they are all great!" Bird was even more calm, controlled and and as another commenter mentions, also praised them as people. A beautiful interview. Thank you for this and for the wonderful jazz scholarship!
Thanks much David--that is a great example from Bley. You will be interested to know that a detailed bio of Bley is in progress. Here's an excerpt:
https://www.pointofdeparture.org/archives/PoD-66/PoD66JumpinIn.html
I'm a little late getting to this party, but I've made a transcription of this interview which I will get to Mr. Porter soon. It's a great interview, and consider this hilarious (and very well-intentioned, and even thoughtful) wind-up from Mr. Bachelder, and Bird's simple, but heavy, answer:
BB: Uh, do you feel that Jazz is like a civilization, it starts to grow and grow, like this country of ours, it started with a revolution, and certain patriots expose themselves to the hangman’s noose by their speeches against the powers to be, and so forth and so on, and next thing you know you have an independent country – do you feel that’s what’s happening with Jazz, that every once in a while a guy appears on the scene that has something new to offer, and naturally some of the old schoolboys say “oh, he’ll never make it” and “those guys are crazy” and so forth, and then there’s a leveling off point, where it all is absorbed in one great feeling of expression?
10:11 CP: Well, there, Bob, I’d have to say again it’s a matter of opinion, but if you want mine, I sincerely hope the musicians [will] be much more successful with music than the populace of the earth has been with the idea of civilization.
BB: Mm-hmm, wonderful.
Can't wait to see it John. Thanks much. Yes, it's common for interviewers to try to get their subject to say what they want them to say. Yet it seems the Parker sidesteps him at every point. And I agree that Bachelder is well-intentioned--he's a good guy and trying to engage Parker in some real issues. THANKS!
Thanks to Elaine and Craig, and also to you. This is a remarkable find.