Really fascinating article. The embedded audio clips snare are valuable gems. Twenty year old Steve Lacy’s solo on “Avalon” is an amazing documentation of his very early style.
One correction - a high F# on soprano sax is a concert E, not an Ab.
I think concert A-flat is the correct pitch, at least when I referenced it on a keyboard. However, that note, transposed to Bb Soprano Sax, would be a B-flat.
Glad you're writing about one of my all-time favorite improvisers! Funny you should mention his use of a “story telling” phrase—I spoke to him after a show in the 90s in NYC and asked about lessons (he told me to get his book), but when he asked me what instrument I played and I told him trumpet, he said "good!" And I asked why it was good, and he said, "well, it's a discursive instrument. It tells a story!" (P.S. he did come back to playing with walking bass later—see his trio records with J.J. Avenal & John Betsch.)
That's great that you got to talk with him. Interesting that he suggested that the trumpet tells a story--that it didn't depend on who was playing it! I have his book--the one that comes with two CDs, yes? I didn't recall those trio albums--will check them out. (I saw the full group with Irene singing.) THANK YOU IAN !
Thanks for yet another fantastic insight. Lovely, but hard swingin' Mr. Lacy. Mr. Minimum, as he was nicked by his peers, had a big impact on my own playing. I met him several times. He was a very soft, witty gentleman who couldn't care less of conventions or "the way to do things correctly".
By the way, "Evidence" is running a halftone too high. It's originally in Eb, not in E ... 😉
That's great that you met and even played with Lacy! I enjoyed your Lacy posts at the links you provided. About the key, yes of course it's in Eb, but the "live" recording--that is the one you mean--is not playing in E--it's just a little above Eb. To test it, try playing with it in Eb, and you'll see that it sounds a little out of tune, not a full half-step high. So I decided to leave it as it is. THANK YOU BREWSK
thanks for all your responses I've missed, just because I wasn't logged in, and hadn't been notified. Anyway, hey, no problem with an almost in e-major "Evidence"... As we say in Cologne: "Let's not be more Catholic than the Pope"... 😇
I played with Karl Brown at the Jazz Workshop in San Francisco in 1961. He had a huge sound and made everything easy. For a drummer he provided a thick carpet to ride on.
Wow--that's amazing that you played with him. But I believe you're from Australia, yes? And he was there for a bit. Is that how you connected with him in SF somehow? Thank you!
Thank you for the great post! I really enjoyed hearing that early Lacy. He was my friend and mentor in Paris back in the day. The 1999 interview I did with him at KFAI in Minneapolis is in 4 parts on my Notes from the Western Edge podcast on Spotify. He talks about his time with Monk, Cecil, and much more. Also, part 4 is him playing the first tune he ever wrote - The Crust.
Addendum: My apologies, but I just discovered that Spotify has removed Lacy's performance of The Crust from my podcast because they say it violates their policy about music distribution. Because it was part of my interview with him I'll try to get it reinstated but might not be successful. This policy must be fairly new because The Crust has been part of the podcast for several years.
Hello, that's great that you really knew Lacy. I'm listening now to Part 1 of your Lacy interview--great stuff! I also listened to your Carla Bley interview. I hope they allow you to put that performance of The Crust back up. Is your podcast on any platform besides Spotify? THANK YOU RICHARD
Thank you, Lewis! Sorry for my late response - I just now saw your comment. I don’t think they’ll let me put The Crust back up on Spotify but I’ll start the process and see what happens. In any case, I’ll probably put it up on a future substack post when I get to my days in Paris. Thanks again!
Just to be clear, did he perform The Crust specifically for your podcast, or is it from a commercial recording of his? If it's the latter you could just refer people to that. THANKS RICHARD
At the end of the 90-minute interview I did with him in a production studio at KFAI-FM in Minneapolis , Sreve took his horn out of its case, played Tfe Crust solo, and told rhe story of its creation. Completely unsolicited by me. I was delighted!
I transcribed his solo on "Skippy" for Downbeat years ago. I was very impressed by his facility on this slippery tune and imagined that he must have spent many concentrated hours on it. Years later, I read in his book that he had done exactly that. It would be fascinating to learn his practice regimen.
I didn't recall that you did that transcription--Great! When you say that you read his book, I assume you mean Findings (https://www.amazon.com/dp/2907891081), the one that came with 2 CDs. I seem to recall that it does indeed have a lot about his practice regimen. No? THANK YOU STEVE
The soprano has such a strange history in jazz with that huge gap; Bechet, Lacy ,Coltrane. I heard the group with Roswell Rudd that played all Monk sometime around'64. Lacy has always been a hero of mine for sticking to his guns as a non-doubling soprano player at a time when the instrument was totally out of fashion and being an in-the-moment improviser who never fell back on a safety net of licks or patterns. Speaking of altissimo on soprano, Hall Overton's orchestration of Monk's solo on Four In One on Monk Big Band And Quartet In Concert contains some 16th note runs up to altissimo C above high F (written).
Hi Kenny. Of course the soprano story is a bit more than that--after Bechet, Hodges, Barnet and others. But yes, there's a big gap in the 40s, then Lacy, and a Danish player named Max Bruel, and after Coltrane, many more. That's amazing that Overton wrote so high--clearly, he knew Lacy would be playing! THANKS KENNY!
Great to hear Lacy and Rouse playing a Monk tune with Monk…. and live!
Hep!
Really fascinating article. The embedded audio clips snare are valuable gems. Twenty year old Steve Lacy’s solo on “Avalon” is an amazing documentation of his very early style.
One correction - a high F# on soprano sax is a concert E, not an Ab.
I think concert A-flat is the correct pitch, at least when I referenced it on a keyboard. However, that note, transposed to Bb Soprano Sax, would be a B-flat.
Yes--I fixed it--THANK YOU
Glad you're writing about one of my all-time favorite improvisers! Funny you should mention his use of a “story telling” phrase—I spoke to him after a show in the 90s in NYC and asked about lessons (he told me to get his book), but when he asked me what instrument I played and I told him trumpet, he said "good!" And I asked why it was good, and he said, "well, it's a discursive instrument. It tells a story!" (P.S. he did come back to playing with walking bass later—see his trio records with J.J. Avenal & John Betsch.)
That's great that you got to talk with him. Interesting that he suggested that the trumpet tells a story--that it didn't depend on who was playing it! I have his book--the one that comes with two CDs, yes? I didn't recall those trio albums--will check them out. (I saw the full group with Irene singing.) THANK YOU IAN !
F# on the soprano saxophone is concert E natural, not concert Ab.
I fixed that typo--thanks--he played a concert Ab, which is soprano Bb.
Thanks for yet another fantastic insight. Lovely, but hard swingin' Mr. Lacy. Mr. Minimum, as he was nicked by his peers, had a big impact on my own playing. I met him several times. He was a very soft, witty gentleman who couldn't care less of conventions or "the way to do things correctly".
By the way, "Evidence" is running a halftone too high. It's originally in Eb, not in E ... 😉
https://brewlitesjazztales.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/monks-advice-notes-by-steve-lacy/
https://brewlitesjazztales.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/794/
That's great that you met and even played with Lacy! I enjoyed your Lacy posts at the links you provided. About the key, yes of course it's in Eb, but the "live" recording--that is the one you mean--is not playing in E--it's just a little above Eb. To test it, try playing with it in Eb, and you'll see that it sounds a little out of tune, not a full half-step high. So I decided to leave it as it is. THANK YOU BREWSK
Hi Lewis --
thanks for all your responses I've missed, just because I wasn't logged in, and hadn't been notified. Anyway, hey, no problem with an almost in e-major "Evidence"... As we say in Cologne: "Let's not be more Catholic than the Pope"... 😇
Ha ha true!
I played with Karl Brown at the Jazz Workshop in San Francisco in 1961. He had a huge sound and made everything easy. For a drummer he provided a thick carpet to ride on.
Wow--that's amazing that you played with him. But I believe you're from Australia, yes? And he was there for a bit. Is that how you connected with him in SF somehow? Thank you!
I'm not from Australia, I lived there from Nov. 63 to Nov. 68. You can hear me on Bernie McGann 1966, on YouTube.
I see --thanks for explaining. I've added your comment to the essay above.
Thank you for the great post! I really enjoyed hearing that early Lacy. He was my friend and mentor in Paris back in the day. The 1999 interview I did with him at KFAI in Minneapolis is in 4 parts on my Notes from the Western Edge podcast on Spotify. He talks about his time with Monk, Cecil, and much more. Also, part 4 is him playing the first tune he ever wrote - The Crust.
Addendum: My apologies, but I just discovered that Spotify has removed Lacy's performance of The Crust from my podcast because they say it violates their policy about music distribution. Because it was part of my interview with him I'll try to get it reinstated but might not be successful. This policy must be fairly new because The Crust has been part of the podcast for several years.
Hello, that's great that you really knew Lacy. I'm listening now to Part 1 of your Lacy interview--great stuff! I also listened to your Carla Bley interview. I hope they allow you to put that performance of The Crust back up. Is your podcast on any platform besides Spotify? THANK YOU RICHARD
Thank you, Lewis! Sorry for my late response - I just now saw your comment. I don’t think they’ll let me put The Crust back up on Spotify but I’ll start the process and see what happens. In any case, I’ll probably put it up on a future substack post when I get to my days in Paris. Thanks again!
Just to be clear, did he perform The Crust specifically for your podcast, or is it from a commercial recording of his? If it's the latter you could just refer people to that. THANKS RICHARD
At the end of the 90-minute interview I did with him in a production studio at KFAI-FM in Minneapolis , Sreve took his horn out of its case, played Tfe Crust solo, and told rhe story of its creation. Completely unsolicited by me. I was delighted!
The*
I transcribed his solo on "Skippy" for Downbeat years ago. I was very impressed by his facility on this slippery tune and imagined that he must have spent many concentrated hours on it. Years later, I read in his book that he had done exactly that. It would be fascinating to learn his practice regimen.
I didn't recall that you did that transcription--Great! When you say that you read his book, I assume you mean Findings (https://www.amazon.com/dp/2907891081), the one that came with 2 CDs. I seem to recall that it does indeed have a lot about his practice regimen. No? THANK YOU STEVE
The soprano has such a strange history in jazz with that huge gap; Bechet, Lacy ,Coltrane. I heard the group with Roswell Rudd that played all Monk sometime around'64. Lacy has always been a hero of mine for sticking to his guns as a non-doubling soprano player at a time when the instrument was totally out of fashion and being an in-the-moment improviser who never fell back on a safety net of licks or patterns. Speaking of altissimo on soprano, Hall Overton's orchestration of Monk's solo on Four In One on Monk Big Band And Quartet In Concert contains some 16th note runs up to altissimo C above high F (written).
Hi Kenny. Of course the soprano story is a bit more than that--after Bechet, Hodges, Barnet and others. But yes, there's a big gap in the 40s, then Lacy, and a Danish player named Max Bruel, and after Coltrane, many more. That's amazing that Overton wrote so high--clearly, he knew Lacy would be playing! THANKS KENNY!